Who were this year’s best media interview performers?
And who could do with some more media training?
These were the questions we explored in our final Media Team Academy masterclass of the year.
Host Darren Wingham was joined in our TV studios by Susan Bookbinder, one of our expert media training tutors.
And there were video contributions from other members of our brilliant training team.
Let’s take a look at what they discussed and the spokespeople who grabbed their attention.
Gillian Keegan
Susan introduced the first ‘bad’ example by saying, “It’s not what she says during the interview that went viral, it is what she said afterwards,” which gives you a clue about who it features.
Yes, Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary, who produced a stunning ‘hot mic’ gaffe at the start of the RAAC concrete debacle that plunged the return to schools into chaos.
At the end of an ITV interview, the politician said: “Does anyone ever say, ‘You’ve done a fu**ing good job because everyone else has been sat on their arse and done nothing?’”
Education secretary Gillian Keegan is recorded on camera saying others ‘have been sat on their a***s’ on schools Raac crisis and shares frustration about not being thanked for doing ‘a f***ing good job’https://t.co/c02gI4dXiM pic.twitter.com/jWbYTVZl5D
— ITV News Politics (@ITVNewsPolitics) September 4, 2023
Mike Pearce, one of our media training tutors, described that as a “fatal error”.
He added: “When you do an interview, you must treat every camera and microphone as live.”
Susan said it is a reminder to spokespeople you are always on-the-record.
She said: “When a journalist is in the room, you are on-the-record. Certainly, as a newspaper journalist, I got my best stories after the interview, on the way to the lift, when the celebrity I’ve just interviewed says, “Sorry, I’ve got to get this, it’s my divorce lawyer’. What am I going to write about? I’ve got an exclusive here.”
As the video went viral, Ms Keegan faced the music, appearing on Sky News later the same day - an uncomfortable interview that began with her having to watch her sweary footage.
And the memorable first question was: “So, do you think you are doing an effing good job?”
Ms Keegan did apologise and tried to explain what happened. But she came across as defensive and argumentative.
Mike added: “While it is good to make the apology and set out your stall, you have to get on to what you want to say, and that doesn’t happen.
“You have to think about the audience and not get into a row with the interviewer.”
Dr Dhananjayan Sriskandarajah
A woke row in 2023, who’d have thought it?
As scrutiny intensifies over the words we use, Oxfam released an ‘inclusive language guide’ to help staff talk about its work.
Among the recommendations was that 'parent' replaces 'mother' and 'father'. 'Humankind' was suggested in place of 'mankind'.
But we live in divided times, and the charity faced a ferocious backlash that saw it splashed over the front of the Daily Mail and drew criticism from politicians.
Oxfam GB CEO Dr Dhananjayan Sriskandarajah was invited to Good Morning Britain to discuss the guide and faced some hostile questions.
And he produced a brilliant example of staying calm under pressure and not getting drawn into a fight with the journalists.
Here’s what he said about supposedly banning the word mother.
He said: “What this guide is saying is what my kid’s school has been saying for a long time – a lot of the forms we fill in these days at school say parent or guardian. They don’t say mother or father, recognising that there are same-sex couples, there are trans and non-binary parents.
“So, we are just updating our language to catch up with most British organisations.”
Throughout the interview, there were examples of the bridging media training technique as the boss attempted to subtly steer the conversation.
Asked whether he was concerned the guide would “put people off supporting Oxfam”, he briefly answered the question and steered the conversation away with an example of what he learnt from the guidance.
“No, I think most of our supporters will understand we are an organisation that wants to end poverty and in order to do that, we have to be as inclusive as possible,” he said.
“I really urge people to read our guide - it is a really helpful way of understanding the world.
“I read it and learnt, for example, we should avoid using words like sanitary products or hygiene products to describe period products because the word sanitary makes menstruation feel dirty.
“I didn’t know that. I now know that maybe I should rethink the way I use words like sanitary products.”
Tom Idle, another of our expert tutors, said: “He did a geat job of defending his organisation and using language that resonates with the public.”
And Susan added: “He stayed calm and his demeanour made the journalists look quite aggressive. And he bridged beautifully from a question about money and going on to talk about the work Oxfam does to shape lives.
“He conveyed warmth and competence.”
Tobias Ellwood
Our next example of a bad interview shows what happens when the interviewee tries to become the interviewer.
Politician Tobias Ellwood was appearing on BBC News about comments he had made in a video about security in Afghanistan being “vastly improved” since the Taliban returned to power and suggesting the West encourage the uptake of women's rights "incrementally".
And when journalist Yalda Hakin questioned that view, he made the mistake of asking her if she had been to the country.
Here’s the key exchange:
Yalda Hakin: “You say security is better. For some people in the country, they don’t feel security is better. I’ve been to mosques, for example, where members of the Shia community, the Hazara community have been targeted by groups like ISK. And, in terms of violence, there are other people who say the Taliban is still inflicting violence upon them.
Ellwood: Have you visited yourself? I really encourage people to make their own judgement.
Hakin: Absolutely. I’ve been to Helmand. I’ve been to Kandahar. I’ve been to Herat. I’ve spent time in Kabul.
Ellwood: When did you go?
Hakin: I was there in February of this year.
“Have you visited yourself?”
— Fraser Nelson (@FraserNelson) July 28, 2023
The wrong question to ask Yalda Hakim, who knows Afghanistan better than Tobias Elwood. She is leaving the BBC to to become a news anchor on Sky.pic.twitter.com/977mnanZMA
Who do you sympathise with? The presenter who has just spoken of her experience visiting the country or the interviewee who thought he was asking a smart question designed to catch her out?
Answering a question with a question also suggests the spokesperson is uncomfortable or frustrated with what is being covered. They don’t want to answer what is being put to them.
Victoria Smith described this as a “classic mistake”. She said: “Never ask the journalist the question. Mr Ellwood asked her if she had been to Afghanistan. Yalda is part Afghan and continues to visit Afghanistan on a regular basis.”
Howard Bentham also had issues with the camera angle. He said: “His camera angle and tone made it feel visually and metaphorically like he was talking down to the audience. It is not a good look and is something a little time spent wisely framing his shot would have remedied.”
Susan added: “If you provoke a journalist by asking a stupid question like that, don’t get angry if they answer back.
“I find this interview so disappointing because I like Tobias Ellwood. I think he is an excellent spokesperson. But he lost a lot of credibility here.”
Chris O’Shea
When British Gas was in the hot seat, its boss quickly fronted its response with a series of interviews.
An undercover investigation revealed debt collectors used by the company were forcing their way into homes to install prepayment meters.
The story was the front-page lead in The Times under the headline ‘British Gas breaks into homes of the vulnerable’. It included a distressing first-hand account from a reporter who was part of a team that forced their way into a family home during January’s cold snap.
Chris O’Shea, the CEO of Centrica, the owners of British Gas, showed compassion and took responsibility in his interviews.
He told Radio 4’s Today programme: “There’s nothing I can say that can express the horror I had when I heard and saw this. It is completely unacceptable. That language is unacceptable.
“The contractor we’ve employed – Arvato – has let us down. But I’m accountable for this. This happened when people were acting on behalf of British Gas.
“There’s nothing that can be said to excuse that. Every one of our customers deserves to be treated with respect. That’s what I’d expect of myself. That’s what I’d expect of my colleagues. That’s what I’d expect of our contractors.
“As soon as we heard this, we suspended Arvato. They are not doing any work for us right now.”
British Gas has suspended the force-fitting of prepayment meters, after a report said it imposed them on vulnerable customers.
— BBC Radio 4 Today (@BBCr4today) February 2, 2023
Chris O'Shea, boss of Centrica which owns British Gas, tells @MishalHusain it's 'completely unacceptable'.https://t.co/azgzgqx9fz | #R4Today pic.twitter.com/mev2bJZJRu
Asked by Sky News how he felt when he saw the footage, Mr O’Shea replied: “Disappointed, livid, gutted. This is not who I am. It is not the standards I set myself.
“It is not the standards that I set the company. It is not who we are. It is not how we do business. There is no excuse.”
Tom Idle was impressed. He said: “What he does brilliantly is he owns what happened. He apologises, and there is no defensiveness. He does a great job of handling a tricky situation.”
Susan added: “In a crisis, you need to be humble. And you must show empathy and compassion for the audience.
“You can do more than just hang on. You can enhance your reputation by how you handle the crisis, and I think he did that.”
Rishi Sunak
Appearing on our compilation of worst interviews is probably the least of the Prime Minister’s ever-growing list of problems.
But Mr Sunak has struggled in the media spotlight.
And one appearance in particular stuck in our minds.
The Prime Minister went into full robotic mode in June when he struggled to answer questions about the Covid Inquiry and the Government’s reluctance to hand over WhatsApp messages.
He just kept saying the same thing over and over again.
Here’s a taste of the exchange:
Reporter: Are you prepared to get into a legal battle with the public inquiry – some senior figures think you will lose that fight.
Sunak: “Again, I don’t want to comment on the speculation, but we are carefully considering next steps, and the Government is confident in its position.”
Reporter: Are you saying it should be up to Ministers to decide what documents are looked at by the inquiry, not the independent judge in charge of it?
Sunak: “Again, the Government has handed over tens and tens of thousands of documents in the spirit of candour and transparency because it is important we learn the lessons of Covid. With regard to the particular question of the moment, we are carefully considering next steps. But the Government is confident in its position.”
Reporter: So, you might not hand over that material they are asking for?
Sunak: “Again, as I’ve said, the Government is considering next steps carefully but has been confident in its position and has handed over tens of thousands of documents.”
Our panel of journalists was not impressed.
Mike Pearce said: “He kept repeating the same phrase in his answers - candour, transparency, tens of thousands of documents. It’s important to prepare your key messages, but if you just repeat, repeat, repeat, it doesn’t come across well.”
And Victoria Smith added: “Rishi is notorious for not bridging when he could and should. Here he sounds like a robot and doesn’t answer the question, so it keeps getting asked. It is a robotic boring interview.”
Susan was equally scathing in the studio.
“There are some media trainers, not us, who tell spokespeople to keep repeating soundbites like this so that if the interview is clipped to just 15 seconds, that message is covered.
“I think he may have been told to keep saying the same thing. But journalists don’t go up to people and say, ‘Can I have a soundbite?’. We have to be seen to be doing an interview.
“So, don’t keep repeating the same thing. Use different words and phrases and reframe the message.
“And we are talking about people who have died in this interview - let’s at least have a bit of warmth in the voice.”
Sarina Wiegman
England manager Sarina Wiegman expertly guided her team to the World Cup final this year.
And she has also proved herself to be an excellent media spokesperson.
The clip we featured comes from a press conference not long after England lost the World Cup final to Spain.
And it was dominated by questions about the conduct of Spanish Football Federation president Luis Rubiales.
She said: “We have all followed and seen the news, and I would like to leave that now with the people who are working on that.
“I think lots of people have spoken up – male and female – and I hope we keep doing that.
“But for us, it always starts with performing. Then you have the visibility and the platform, and we can use that to hopefully make the world a bit better.”
Howard was impressed. He said: Sarina has the skills of acknowledging challenging or off-topic questions down to a fine art before she talks about what she wants to deliver.”
Susan was equally glowing in her praise. She said: “She elegantly and brilliantly moves the conversation back to the football.
“She took control of the press conference and knew where she was going.
“What a great communicator.”
Suella Braverman
Another politician in the ‘bad’ category?
Well, we couldn’t leave out the former Home Secretary. As Susan said: “Suella gave us quite a few choices. But we picked this one out because it is a great example of how not to bridge.”
It came when she was at the centre of a political and media storm for allegedly asking civil servants to help her dodge a group speeding awareness course.
The Sunday Times broke the story, reporting that when the politician was caught speeding in a 50-mph zone last summer, she asked civil servants for help arranging a private course – something that blurs the line between public and private life.
During a pool media interview, the Home Secretary was asked: “Did you ask civil servants last year to arrange a one-on-one driver awareness course when you were caught for speeding? It is a yes or no question.”
Here’s how she replied:
“Well, first and foremost, I am focused on the priorities for the British people as Home Secretary. That’s cutting serious crime with more police officers. That’s standing up for victims of child sexual abuse. It is about stopping the boats.
“And I’m not going to take a backward step from working on those issues.
“In relation to your question, last summer I was speeding. I regret that. I paid the fine, and I took the points.
“But we are focused now on delivering for the British people and working for them.”
Pressed on whether she asked civil servants to put her on a one-to-one speed awareness course, she replied: “In relation to the process, I’m focussed on delivering for the British people and doing my job.
“What I will say is that in my view, I’m confident nothing untoward has happened.”
"I'm very confident nothing untoward has happened."
— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) May 22, 2023
In an interview for broadcasters, Home Secretary Suella Braverman answers questions on whether she broke the ministerial code after reportedly asking the civil service for advice on arranging a private speed awareness course. pic.twitter.com/CGttI5q03x
It’s like she slammed the bridging technique into reverse, answering something else first and then steering the conversation back to the question.
Susan said: “The bridging is terrible – she attempted to bridge and then stopped without moving the conversation on. The tone is awful. And the exit strategy is one of the worst things. If you are going to walk off (not recommended), don’t go one way and then the other.
Damian Watson was also critical, saying: “This is the type of interview that makes people despair. There is a refusal to answer the question.”
And an unimpressed Victoria Smith added: “She could have dealt with it quickly and moved on. But she didn’t. She kept talking about something else and then coming back to it. She got the bridging all wrong and mixed up.
“And because she kept coming back to it, the journalist could continue to ask about it. She gets visibly annoyed and more or less storms out.”
Jude Bellingham
The Real Madrid and England star can do little wrong.
His performances on the pitch go from strength to strength.
And he is confident in front of the media, showing a willingness to give an honest assessment of his performance and that of his teammates.
Earlier this year, he produced a player-of-the-match performance against Scotland. But in his post-match interview, he also wanted to talk about how he felt he had not met his high standards in the previous encounter with Ukraine.
“I wasn’t happy with how I played in Poland against Ukraine,” he said. “I showed a level that wasn’t anywhere near my best.
“And I think that is the motivation always, to get back to your best. And I think that was close to it tonight.”
And there was a sprinkling of humour when he was asked what his best role was for England.
“It is tough because we have so many amazing players to accommodate and get the best out of. So, it shouldn’t just be built around what I do really well. The team has to come first always, and I do my best to slot in and do whatever the gaffer wants from me.
“I probably think this one was a bit better suited than at the weekend – no hints to the gaffer. I really enjoyed playing in that position tonight.”
"I can still do it a lot better and that's what I'm trying to prove to you all."
— Channel 4 Sport (@C4Sport) September 12, 2023
ELITE mentality 😤#C4Football | #SCOvENG pic.twitter.com/3iTgK4pLc2
Susan said: “When it comes to communication in this country, it is the footballers who have it.
“Jude has just scored a great goal and had an even better assist, and he had an opportunity to cover himself in glory, but he gives it all back to the team and the fans.
“He is humble, generous, genuine and shows respect. He uses inclusive language and makes you feel connected and warm.
“Jude Bellingham for Prime Minister.”
Fancy a couple more?
Well, it is Christmas. Here are a couple of other media interviews that stood out for me this year but didn’t appear in the masterclass.
Toxic aubergines
Many spokespeople struggle with doorstep interviews.
No one wants to find journalists on their doorstep, and it is a tricky format to handle.
This Morning editor Martin Frizell provided a memorably weird example of how not to do it as the programme dominated the headlines following the departure of presenter Philip Schofield.
Asked by Sky News about allegations of a “toxic” work culture, he replied: “I’ll tell you what’s toxic, and I’ve always found it toxic. Aubergine. Do you like aubergine?”
When the question was asked again, he continued with the food theme saying: “But do you like aubergine? ‘Cause I don’t like aubergine. It’s just a personal thing.”
"I'll tell you what's toxic and I've always found it toxic. Aubergine. Do you like aubergine?"
— Sky News (@SkyNews) June 5, 2023
Martin Frizell, editor of ITV's This Morning's response when asked if a 'toxic work environment' exists at This Morning. https://t.co/t6NccigFyY
📺 Sky 501 and YouTube pic.twitter.com/kF3zhGpoqj
Was that the response of a leader taking the allegations seriously?
John Nicolson MP, a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, didn’t think so. He tweeted: “This is a deeply inappropriate and disrespectful way to respond to questions about safeguarding vulnerable staff and bullying in the workplace at ITV.”
Incompetent pickpockets
The race for the worst political interview of the year is a packed and competitive field.
But mayoral hopeful Susan Hall, who earlier in the year gave an interview where she claimed to be unable to remember liking a post featuring a picture of Enoch Powell, produced a stunning late entry.
The London mayoral candidate had previously claimed crime was “completely out of control” in the capital after saying that £40 in cash and her Oyster card had been taken from her on the Tube.
But during an excruciating interview with LBC, she refused to apologise for saying she had been pickpocketed - despite none of her cash or cards having been stolen when her wallet was returned to her.
She said: “I assumed I had been pickpocketed. For all I know, I still was. I genuinely do not know. I got on at Westminster with it. I got off at Pinner without it.”
Asked why a pickpocket would return a wallet with cash and cards, she said: “At that point, I had no idea. At that point, I just knew I didn’t have my card.”
When presenter Nick Ferrari asked whether she still maintained she could have been the victim of a pickpocket “whose level of incompetence is that they get hold of your wallet and take nothing from it”, she replied: “Yes, I could have been.
“When I had said that I had not got my property back. I was phoned in the late afternoon.”
'You sought to weaponise this and you’ve been caught out.'
— LBC (@LBC) December 6, 2023
'No, you’re only caught out if you say something wrong... This is the truth.'
Susan Hall doubles down on her claim she was the victim of 'pickpocketing' - despite her wallet being returned with money still inside. pic.twitter.com/BnYNAoh72T
Embarrassing stuff.
Surely, a better approach would have been to admit that she initially got it wrong, thank those who got her property back to her, and then say something like, “But many others are not so lucky, and we need to…”.
There were many other good and bad interview candidates this year, including the likes of James Cleverly, the family of Captain Tom and Dr Timothy Brain on the naughty list. While we loved Phiala Mehring’s recent interview about floods.
Who will make the good and bad lists next year?
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