The words of presenter Shelagh Fogarty as a radio interview came to a premature and memorable end.
And having just highlighted in our media training blogs how a spokesperson performed well in a challenging interview, we thought we also better look at this example of how not to do it.
Don't have time to read this blog? You can listen to it here:
It was provided by Dr Timothy Brain, the former chief constable of Gloucestershire Constabulary, when he appeared on LBC.
The interview started well enough as the Labour Party’s new blueprint for tackling crime was discussed.
There was an indication of what was to come as Dr Brain seemed to take exception to an interruption from the presenter, saying, “I’m not going to be beaten off this”.
But the interview changed gear when Ms Fogarty brought in The Baroness Casey Review – an investigation into the standards of behaviour and internal culture of the Met – and asked whether he would be in favour of the automatic suspension of those facing sexual misconduct of domestic violence allegations.
Fogarty: So, you wouldn’t be in favour of automatic suspension.
Brain: There is a crucial question to be asked which is, is there a safe alternative duty for this officer? Those are the regulations. Those are the steps you go through.
Fogarty: Right, so you wouldn’t be in favour of automatic suspension if someone is accused of sexual misconduct or domestic violence in the force?
Brain: I think that would amount to a fundamental denial of natural rights.
Fogarty (interrupting): Well, teachers are suspended if they are accused of harming a child.
Brain: You’ve asked me my opinion - I’ve just given it.
Fogarty: You didn’t quite say no. So, it’s a no, is it?
Brain: I said it would be a fundamental denial of natural rights, that’s my answer.
Fogarty: And if a teacher is accused of sexual abuse of a child, they should stay in school?
Brain: You’d have to ask education specialists about that. And that is a different matter from the one you’ve just raised with me. I’ve given you a perfectly clear answer. You don’t have to accept it, but there it is.”
When the presenter attempted to paraphrase what he had said, the former police boss accused her of attempting to “manufacture a form of words that are not the words I used”.
When Ms Fogarty said he was “bad-tempered”, he replied: “I’m not bad-tempered at all, but you’ve tried to interrupt me several times.”
And added: “I’m sorry you interpret challenge to your interviewing style as bad-tempered. But maybe we’ve come to the end of the interview.”
Ex-Chief Constable Dr Timothy Brain says suspending a police office for misconduct or domestic violence breaches ‘natural rights’ but then vehemently refuses to debate his point. @ShelaghFogarty: 'It's just a long time since I interviewed such a bad-tempered man!' pic.twitter.com/1v7XGqLWzb
— LBC (@LBC) March 23, 2023
Wow. It was one of those interviews where you stop what you are doing and take note. But not for the right reasons.
It’s dramatic, and you are intrigued by what might happen next.
And in a week in which police have been accused - by the Casey review - of having a “defensive response” to allegations, it is not a great look.
I listened to this and could not believe what I was hearing, he got so angry as well! Nothing worse than a man not liking being challenged. Awful!
— Janice Jenner (@JaniceJenner) March 23, 2023
“That’s my opinion, but also let’s not discuss it.”
— David Scribner (@davidascribner) March 23, 2023
Credit to the Force…😂
— Dom Joly (@domjoly) March 23, 2023
I mentioned we recently highlighted an interview from Oxfam GB CEO Dr Dhananjayan Sriskandarajah, on Good Morning Britain, about his organisation’s new language guidance.
He faced several uncomfortable questions, including suggestions the guide was “wokeness gone mad” and that the approach would alienate supporters. Yet, he was calm, composed and didn’t get riled.
This was the opposite.
And here’s the thing – where do your sympathies lie as a listener? With the presenter who calmly says, “I’m just trying to have a conversation”? Or with the spokesperson complaining about interruptions, answers not being liked, and words misconstrued?
During our media training courses, we stress that when an interview becomes difficult, the audience is more likely to be sympathetic if the spokesperson remains calm.
Of course, interruptions can be annoying – no-one likes to be interrupted when they speak.
Attempts to paraphrase what you have said with ‘so, what you are saying is…’ style questions can also be irritating.
But showing frustration and anger must be avoided. As should challenging their interview technique.
Will the LBC audience remember anything Dr Brain said? Or will they recall that the interview got tetchy and ended early?
So, how can spokespeople avoid getting rattled by interruptions?
We tell delegates on our media training courses to avoid trying to raise their voice to talk over the presenter. No one can understand what is said when two people are speaking - or shouting - at the same time. Instead, they should maintain a calm tone, wait for the reporter to finish their interruption, and then say something like, "just let me finish what I was saying because it’s an important point’.
"We also stress it is vital to be realistic. Spokespeople should accept they will be interrupted at some point – it happens in most interviews.
But you can reduce the chances of it happening by not being evasive – a journalist will interrupt if they think you are dodging the question. In broadcast interviews you also need to keep your responses to the point – and avoid rambling answers.
Paraphrase?
What about when the journalist attempts to paraphrase your answer?
Well, again, composure is crucial. Avoid accusing the journalist of “manufacturing a form of words”.
There are reasons why journalist paraphrase answers.
Often it is simply for clarity. It may also be because they think the spokesperson has said something surprising – which seems to be what happened in this interview. And sometimes it will be to put your response into a simpler form of words, without jargon, that will be easier for their audience to understand.
Journalists also do it to help spokespeople get to the point.
Don’t accept the paraphrase if you are unhappy about it. But if you correct it, do it politely and calmly. And without accusation.
Which reminds me, if you want to dispel the idea you are a “bad-tempered man”, repeating the phrase “bad-tempered” several times will not help.
Repeating a journalist’s loaded or negative language is a common media interview mistake.
And one that summed up a disastrous media performance for the former top cop.
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